Particularly by the ignorant masses always keen to blame someone else for their failure. Many of them post here, and god help you if you're educated in business trying to speak in one of the threads about the economy. It's just not even worth the time correcting them because they won't listen to you anyway. I'm just sick of em anyway and will be happy to let them wallow in their self-pity while I go out and make my living.

Nothing gets rid of my sympathy and compassion quicker than someone else blaming politics and corporations for their ills in life. ADAPT for crying out loud.

I was reading an article the other day which made a point about the mind set in small communities. It said that most of the people who lived in the community thought that there was a set amount of wealth available for the community as a whole and for one person to thrive and get wealthy meant that someone else or the community as a whole had to lose some of their wealth. This made it sinful for anyone to get wealthy unless they got that wealth from an outside source, such as the lottery or a gift from a wealthy person. Seems to me that this kind of mindset is very prevalent in the world today. That's why everyone wants to take from the rich and give it to the poor. I've always wondered about the people who think printing more money somehow devalues the money as a whole. Frankly, if I have a dollar in my pocket, then as far as I am concerned, that dollar is worth one dollar, period. Just because you add that dollar to a million more, doesn't make it worth any less than a dollar. This is why the world's money supplies are in trouble. We, the people, are allowing someone else to tell us how much our dollar is worth. All 'dollars' no matter what they are called, should be equal in value, period. Then there wouldn't be cash deficits between countries.

Liberals hate the United States and think it should be more like the Soviet Union. Hungary is a classic example of Soviet life. And that's what Pelosi and Reid want us to live like? Of course they would be spared because they're special.

Indeed... go ahead and blame the people for an imagined "hatred" towards the rich. It wasn't the people that made waste policies... it was the corporation. Stop willfully ignoring reality.

a dollar is a dollar until it is mixed with many more dollars which makes 1M dollars much more powerful than 1 dollar. economics encourages people to amass more dollars so they can vote for economic policies that will increase their amount of dollars. This is basic economics. depending on the greed of the people who amass more dollars, certain policies are put into place, such as the inadequate storage and processing of toxic byproducts.

success is fine. making money is fine. but if making money successfully includes poisoning a community, it is not successful. it's greedy. making things and caring for community are not mutually exclusive.

btw, aluminum companies are notorious for polluting. Take the Whatcom County, Washington situation. not covered smelting pots began killing off dairy cows hmmm 1970's? The community said do something. the company cried, moaned, groaned, and accused the community of destroying their ability to provide jobs, make money, etc., and they would go broke if required to clean up. The county gave huge tax breaks in order to get the company to clean up its act. they finally covered the pots and reclaimed enough aluminum to pay for the covered pots, many times over. So they got more money from the process, paid less taxes to the community. no wonder people are crabby about American business.

go out and buy something with that single dollar. It shan't go far. One MILLION dollars on the other hand has a reasonable reach financially only you really are no longer RICH if you accumulate a million bucks. More well off than the dude who only has a single dollar yes, but you have insufficient dollars to keep you out of the poor house. Another question might be do you EVER ahve enough dollars or pesos or what ever to guarentee you will not reach the poor house?

Obama wants 60 MPG cars by 2015. What a great idea! Now, how is the car companies going to do that? Make the engines more efficient? No, because the best you can do with an internal combustion engine is about 50%. We are almost there now. Make the cars lighter? Now, that's an idea. How do you make cars lighter? Plastic parts? Oh no, plastic is made from oil. Aluminum weighs one third of the weight of steel and is the most abundant metal on earth. There's the answer. We'll put the billions of gallons of red mug in the North Pole with the polar bear. LOL

Indeed... go ahead and blame the people for an imagined "hatred" towards the rich. It wasn't the people that made waste policies... it was the corporation. Stop willfully ignoring reality.

supraluminal, this factory and waste pit were set up by soviet-era government, not corporations, which were not even allowed to exist at the time. soviet era communism was notorious for it's ecological disasters, and the people in Hungary, and the rest of the soviet satellites have been slowly cleaning up the ecological mess that was created by soviet style communism

Sciencenew, there is a factor that you don't seem to be considering when you talk about some people using their abilities to build wealth, sometimes wealth beyond comprehension, like Bill Gates, Richard Branson, etc.. Not everyone has the innate talent necessary to create some huge business or product that will produce the kind of wealth that creates billionaires.. If that were the case, we would all be living in million dollar mansions and flying private jets..

The problem is, people like Gates and Branson (just to name two that are well known) are a very small percentage of the population and, yet, they hold the majority of the world's wealth.. It IS unequal and unfair.. While this small percentage of the vast, human population live exactly like the kings and rulers of old, the majority suffers, many dying every day from lack of barest necessities such as clean water, adequate health care, food and housing.. Even here, in the US, everyday people are losing their jobs and homes, they are finding themselves in situations they never thought they'd be in.. Shall we blame them for this, because they lack the wherewithal to design and create a successful business or invent and market a product?

People have a tendency to blame others for their problems, they fall back on blaming their neighbors, hence let's get rid of the 'Jews' or the 'Gypsys' or whoever is convenient to be the scapegoats, but they are always the folks in the minority, those who don't have the numbers or means to defend themselves.. When people suffer from being denied the necessities of life they WILL become violent and will follow leaders that usually advocate the same.. That is how ethnic cleansings and genocides start.. The thought is, if we get rid of this group of people, it will leave more for us.. This is a such a sad thing, that humans still want to kill each other because they don't want to share..

The fact is, billionaires the world over have enough money between them, that if divided up between the nations of the world, would be enough to create solvency and give every human being on the planet enough money to have a decent life.. That is how unequal the division is between the extreme wealthy and the extreme poor.. I don't think any one person should have enough wealth that they actually control the lives of other people, even people they don't know, but they do, simply because they control such huge reserves of currency.. That is simply not right..

ADAPT? Adapt to toxic sludge spilling into your home? Adapt to dangerously polluted drinking water? Wow; if anyone in the world could make it possible to 'adapt' to being exposed to toxic chemicals, possibly on a long-term basis, we wouldn't have anything to worry about, would we? And BTW, I own a home that I worked to pay for, and I work to pay my bills and feed my family, but if some catastrophe made our home uninhabitable we could not afford another. We managed to buy a house and we manage to make a living, but we are not wealthy by any means... just like lots of others.

And in the case of this catastrophe, it IS the corporation's fault. They did not inspect the dams on a regular basis for weak spots or cracks, they just kept filling; and when it comes down to it, they won't be hurt much, but those people, through no fault of their own, don't have a home and have no place to go.

Danwill... it is cyclical, do you not see? If the regulations aren't sufficient, it is the government's fault. If the regulations ARE sufficient, it is "stifling economic growth"... and the circle continues. The main point is utterly missed... but you can be assured that corporations see the dance, and they know how to work it. Not only do they know how, but they intentionally exploit... time and time and time again. It is so obvious...

More to the point, forget "party lines". Answer this... why exactly is it that the broad public doesn't expect (even demand) responsible corporate practices in the first place? Fine, if you think regulation is bad... well then, why are you not appalled by irresponsibility? I mean... if anything should be partisan, it should be willfully harming others to maximize profit. Whether you think laws should be prevent it at a legislative level or not... it shouldn't happen. Ever. Yet... the mindset seems to be even if "X" borks it all up, then "Y" will be developed to fix "X". Why was it ever acceptable for "X" to unleash it's havoc in the first place? Not just that unforseen things happen... but the broad public tends to just take and accept whatever "X" does as they wait for "Y". This is exploited universally... the exploitation AND the attitude both need to change.

actually supraluminal, you could also look at the excesses of the soviet era as the ultimate example of "self-regulation" since the government fully owned all the factories and was responsible for any "regulation" as well. one of the larger but never mentioned factors in the overthrow of the old soviet style rule was the simple fact that people were tired of being poisoned to death. nothing in the US even compares to some of the horrors that existed there , the locals are and have been cleaning up bit by bit, but they aren't there yet.

we have our own problems, but for the most part aren't either as severe, or are longer-term and more insidious.(and more easily swept under the rug by naysayers)

What do you know about being Hungarian?

Since I clearly strayed out of topic on my first post I should make it clear that I have sympathy for anyone in that situation.

This is not the fault of these people this is the fault of Communism and the Soviet Union.

Many European countries have a lot of what you're looking for. Feel free to move there. Personally, I think the American system of capitalism works much better despite the negatives (downturns like what we have now, have had before, and will have again). This is pretty well proven in both academics and real life. Basically it boils down to the capitalism system generally being so much more profitable that charities dish out more money than you could dish out with a socialist system.

That being said I am all for the government putting people to work. I'd like to see a higher level of investment in the US right now. Let's repair the roads, let's make newer bigger and better ones, build some high speed rails or improve the airline industry, let's build new schools, let's get more teachers, let's invest in upgrading our national computer security and military security, the list just goes on and on and on. So we can definately agree that there's plenty of work to be done.

You put people back to work with government projects, they have money to spend on stuff again, and the economy gets repaired, creates new jobs, and allows us to transition people back to normal jobs again. This concept is very simplistic, and can be seen as socialist, but I just call it good fiscal policy. Laisse-Faire economics (which you call the greed of the rich) doesn't really work and you're always going to have a government in business controlling that. Let's make sure we create the right conditions for business, and we'll get right back to where we need to be.

You do realize that many European countries also have a higher standard of living? Hmmm...

this method of governance and spending has been tried before. Hungary has a plentiful level of experience with communism and failed five year plans.

Capitalism is not broken, even though socialists like Barney Frank tried to break it. Man ... since BO got elected the commie creeps are everywhere.

supraliminal13

You do realize that many European countries also have a higher standard of living? Hmmm...

Certainly wouldn't want you to miss on that, cya...

All that really needs to be said is that banks lent to anyone with a pulse and many bought houses at exorbitant prices they could not afford in the long term. In this situation it took two to tango. I am well aware the banks took on excessive risk just as I'm aware that those neighbors also took on excessive risk. At least the banks had a good reason, and felt that they were doing what was best for their shareholders. The PEOPLE schemin' the system did it for their own self interest.

zaxxon,

I worked at several investment banks. One in particular had extremely tight security. All of a sudden, they had cafeteria tables set up in their lobby with invitations to "walk right in" and apply for a mortgage. If that wasn't enough, at login each staff member was encouraged to come down during lunch and apply...and tell your friends. As far as "doing right by shareholders"...when you screw investors (the banks' clients who DIDN'T have insurance against the bad mortgage investments), you put your shareholders in peril. As for "scheming" people, the debt-to-income ratio provided by the mortgagee was overlooked by the banks and its underwriters. If a doctor (professional at his trade) prescribes the wrong medicine to his patient, do you blame the patient for taking the medicine?? I believe that's what you're doing here.

zaxxon,

P.S. The banks took on no risk when they insured against the potential loss and got paid by AIG. NO RISK...NO LOSS...that's a fact.

Sure banks made money on their loans...WHAT WHAT WHAT??? What you're brushing off as nothing is the EXACT problem. Banks made BAD LOANS ON PURPOSE...LOST NOTHING...MADE MONEY...EVICTED PEOPLE...AND CHARGED ME AND YOU...with the assistance of the government (GWB and Hank Paulson suggesting that the world would end if we didn't go along).

Dislike whomever you want, but blame who is at fault for the issue at hand...and, fyi, it ain't Clinton!!

wasn't Clinton impeached? That's right! He is a criminal.

g.p. clinton was not impeached and convicted, thus, he is not a criminal. Learn what a law is before you open mouth and insert your foot all the way to your knee.

Yes, he was impeached. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but you're not making any connection to what's being discussed right now.

LairdN,

My response wasn't to what you wrote...it was to g.p. That person doesn't know that being impeached doesn't make someone a criminal.

hmmm. what did or do they concede? just asking.

if we are to believe this article -- they may well have conceded a wall of toxic material had already swept over three small towns with death and injury involved and that there was at least the potential for other more dreadful messes readily available. That is if the vine is believeable which might be arguable.

GP,

You just described most of the people that post here ... LOL LOL LOL

Oh my gosh, I can not believe what I have just read from g.p. While generalizations and stereotypes can be made for any nationality, I am shocked that this is what you think of Hungarians, a proud, strong, brave people that repelled the Turks from Europe and for whom church bells ring at noon everday in honor of my Hungarian ancestors defending present day Belgrade from those Turks.

Although, if you are an old Serbian, Romanian, or Slovak, I suppose your comments are understandable, for those peoples have oppressed Hungarians in their lands, lands which used to belong to Hungary. But my gosh, I thought that kind of hatred was dying out with the elders of our countries, because my younger friends in Hungary sure don't hold those hatreds.

Guess I will go and steal something now and then lay back and be lazy, since that is all that Hungarians seem to do according to g.p. Better find something to blame him/her for, too!

@g.p.

"Stealing is a national sport in their country." Really? Have you ever been there? Stealing is a national sport in THIS country. I've just read post after post complaining about the exactions of the government, the dishonesty of American corporations, and the greed of the average American who took advantage of bank loans that were too good to be true.

I suspect you know little or nothing about the country you're so quick to condemn. I spent three years there, and I never felt safer in a big city than I did in Budapest. There are places I wouldn't go in daylight in my own land, but I felt pretty safe everywhere I went in Hungary. Most of the wretched thieves I knew in Hungary would give the shirts of their backs. Can we say that?

Are they guilty of greed? Yes. They fell for the same sweetheart loans that many Americans did, and now they're paying the price. Their government ran up astronomical debts, too, and now their financial system is on the verge of collapse. Maybe all the good, honest folk in this country might want to sit up and take notice.

Are they guilty of failing to adequately protect their people and environment? Yes. Much of the pollution of their land was the parting gift of their Soviet "liberators." Perhaps the pocket-intellectuals of the American blogosphere should clean up our own house before we point the finger at others.

Maybe they should just ADAPT! Maybe you should read their history some time. They've adapted to foreign conquest and economic exploitation. Their years of national glory ended on a swampy battlefield amost 500 years ago, yet they endure. They retain their pride and their dignity, and they will show you hospitality like you've never experienced in your life. If there is a country that can't seem to adapt, it's the US of A. How's our strength of character these days? Once upon a time we beat the snot out of Japan for what they did to us at Pearl Harbor. Nine years after 9-11 we're ready to cut and run in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are willing to sell out our friends and virtually force them to make deals with terrorists.

I'm willing to bet that Hungary might just be around longer than we are. None of us will live long enough to find out. From here we need to hang in there for another 1100 years just to see if we can get a tie. Not bad for a nation in which stealing is a national sport (actually soccer and waterpolo are more popular).

That's all, g.p. I've "conceited" enough time to your szarry ideas already.

LairdN,

If you press the exclamation point on those ads, you can choose "ignore this author" and their nonsense won't be visible on your screen. I just tried it and it worked.

What was it that brought you to reality?