Step one, buy real estate in Canada, it will be so much nicer when the climate warms, and appreciate as people get displaced elsewhere. Just don't buy any low lying land.

Climate change is a serious problem and could affect you in your lifetime. If you die before it gets to you, count yourself lucky.

Give us prove that climate change is a serious problem Spartan.

For those of you who whine about why we don't use our resources, why should we? Maybe it would be better to use everyone else's first, then save our's for last and keep it all to ourselves.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2011/100411.html

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Articgate-perpetuating-myth-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjaVp6AS5XU

Still think it's a @!$%#ing joke?

trust, # 1.4, thanks for saying what I've always thought. We could easily have a supply on hand for when the rest of the world finally runs out, if we just left our oil alone.

But, of course, it's now "our" oil. It is the Oil Companies' oil, and they want to make as much profit as they can as soon as they can.

Good for Canada, Now throw the green teams out. each government must walk their own line and besides that little can be done to change nature anyways. why should any country pay fines that's BS. and who gets all this money? sounds like more Rich Mans Welfare.

Spartan and the other "Believers" . . . the globe has been cooling for over a decade . . . latest satelite date . . . ocean level dropping. It was all about the money.

Check out Lord Moncton's latest video . . . what the UN has in store for you . . . http://godfatherpolitics.com/2563/un-climate-extremists-policies-could-bankrupt-world-and-lead-to-human-extinction/

Japanese scientist Kanya Kusano, a Program Director and Group Leader for the Earth Simulator at the Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science & Technology, has publicly declared that man-made climate fear promotion is now akin to “ancient astrology.”

Mathematical physicist Dr. Frank J. Tipler, Professor of Mathematical Physics, astrophysics, at Tulane University, agrees with Kusano. “Whether the ice caps melt, or expand --- whatever happens --- the AGW theorists claim it confirms their theory. A perfect example of a pseudo-science like astrology,” Tipler wrote on May 15, 2009. “It is obvious that anthropogenic global warming is not science at all, because a scientific theory makes non-obvious predictions which are then compared with observations that the average person can check for himself,” Tipler explained.

Try again. The world is only "cooling" if you cherry pick the data. You cannot possibly get the right conclusion if you look at April 1989 and April 2009 alone. The overall trend for arctic ice is downard and the trend for global temperature is upward.

I'm not at all convinced that you weren't born yesterday, judging by your ignorance.

That would be fine if we weren't constantly adding and mixing more into the atmosphere. I agree we should work on the process to make it as clean as possible but we shouldn't just ignore it. Unless we find another planet to ruin soon enough.

Bravo Canada.

If Canada is out, the Kyotp Protocol has to be a piece of CRAP.

People, people, we have had climate change since we have had climate. If you reduce CO2 , which by the way is NOT a pollutant, to the levels some pseudo Scientists want it will end up killing off all the plants and then all the animal life om earth. Didn't you guys take science in college?

CO2 doesn't kill plants on its own. It gives us global warming which melts ice and kills plants and animals in turn.

All right!!!! It is a true relief to see that some politicians have the guts to tell the "global-warming nazis" to stick it where the sun don't shine! Global warming is a liberal plot to try to control as much of our lives as possible and to seperate us from our assets as quickly as possible! Now we just need to get that oil pipeline from Canada to Texas started and boot the liberals from the White House, the Senate, and as many more as possible from the House! Maybe we will be hearing in 2013 how the U.S. is finally not being a sap to the rest of the world and we will have sane environmental policies and a vibrant economy!

Way to go Canada!

Kyoto, Copenhagen, Cancun and Durban ….

Hey….Didn’t they know that the climate changes all the time??

Sean

Step one, buy real estate in Canada, it will be so much nicer when the climate warms, and appreciate as people get displaced elsewhere. Just don't buy any low lying land.

You are obviously so sharp, you must be a wealthy realestate investor.

Bill #1.12.... Canada now has a conservateave PM so.... LOL

Oh well Canada will just go the way of those European countries that adopted our style of greedy, ignoble capitalism..... now they too are going for and to broke..... LOL

Wonder if this Canadian PM will start sprouting off about the goodness of trickle down economics etc... trickling all the way down to those oil sands that will supposedly produce thousands of jobs in the USA.....in the health care industry...LOL

Gee, I wonder if Russia and Canada pulling out has anything to do with the fact that they will be the two biggest 'Beneficiaries' of 'global warming'?

Both of those countries have huge land masses that are currently unproductive because of cold climates. With 'global warming', vast new areas will open up for not only the development of natural resources, but millions of acres of land that could be used to raise food crops.

Naw, must just be a coincidence.

Also, Canada has the World's third largest reserves of 'recoverable' oil, but it's in the form of Tar Sands that require a huge amount of Carbon emissions to heat the oil to extract it. And avoiding $Billions in penalties from the Kyoto Protocal was another big reason to opt out.

Canada is just the first of many that will soon 'opt out' of Kyoto to avoid penalties.

Bad news for Al Gore.

I cannot believe the blatent ignorance . . . CO2 is a benign gas, we exhale CO2 with every breath. CO2 is plant food, if CO2 doubled tomorrow . . . would anyone notice? Of course not, but the trees and plants would notice. Did you know that Greenhouse operators use CO2 to speed up production in the Greenhouses?

1000 years ago the Vikings lived in Greenland . . . why do you suppose they called it Greenland? Cause is was a block of ice? They lived and farmed there from the 9th to 12th centuries. Recent digs have found foundations of homes and bodies burried in the ground, the ground that was not Perma-frost then as it is today.

Climate has always changed . . . in the last 100 years the temp has increased abouat 2 degrees, in the last decade in has dropped a little . . . only a complete loons would buy into the idea that Government Can Control The Climate of the EARTH!!!

SPARTAN-501 "Climate change is a serious problem and could affect you in your lifetime."

Yes, extra carbon dioxide in the atmosphere makes plants grow faster - We now have 7 billion hungry people that need the extra food, and all of that big increase in arable land in Canada and Siberia will come in handy.

Mr. Alexander's comment, about just adapting to warmer temperatures, is the most ignorance-based and foolish comment I have heard in years.

Sean "Step one, buy real estate in Canada, it will be so much nicer when the climate warms, and appreciate as people get displaced elsewhere."

Look for some prime future farmland - say with about 30 years of new warming. It wouldn't hurt if some of it had Tar Sands as well. And with Gold selling at $1,700 per ounce, I'll bet there are plenty of 'Klondikes' in Canada - weather permitting.

It's nice to see that they have a 'pro-growth' business attitude instead of that old socialist thing that Obama is striving for.

Canada and Russia just have a very practical attitude. Since China, India, Brazil and the United States are not serious about changing the 'climate', they are going to do what's best for Canada and Russia first and foremost.

Glad to see Canada has woke up and realized the environmental kooks have just been holding back progress.

Overall temperatures have NOT been dropping. And just how is CO2 benign to non-plants? It's a waste gas that you don't need. That's why you breathe it OUT.

If CO2 doubled tomorrow, we would feel the nasty effects within a year. It contributes to global warming which causes plants and animals to die. You're the one that's ignorant here.

Henry III "Mr. Alexander's comment, about just adapting to warmer temperatures, is the most ignorance-based and foolish comment I have heard in years."

That's exactly what has happened since the last ice age, and it's the most likely outcome for our future as well.

Far from being 'ignorance-based and foolish', it will most likely be the most accurate prediction of all.

What you discount as 'foolish' is actually quite 'brilliant' when you consider all of the possibilities. Offhand, I'd classify him as 'practical' and you as 'unrealistic'.

if people will just keep populating...the body heat will keep us all warm...

SPARTAN-501 "If CO2 doubled tomorrow, we would feel the nasty effects within a year. It contributes to global warming which causes plants and animals to die."

Yes, CO2 makes plants grow faster, and extra warmth makes plants grow better too - Have you heard of 'Spring'? It's called 'Spring' for a reason, as in plants that 'spring forth'.

Gee, it's fun making fun of global warming alarmists. lol

Gee Spartan how ever did the Earth survive temperatures much higher than we have today? I guess plants and animals are a "recent" addition to the planet.

Roy W . . . CO2 cannot possibly warm up the earth. CO2 makes up 36/thousandths of the atmosphere . . . a miniscule amount. It is also a heavy gas, so it is concentrated near the earth's surface, the Alarmists have scammed us . . . it was always about the money, wealth transfer to the third world orchestrated by the IPCC and scumbag M Strong.

SPARTAN-501 "If CO2 doubled tomorrow, we would feel the nasty effects within a year."

Get real - CO2 is about one thirtieth of 1% of the atmosphere. In comparison, there is over 500 times as much Oxygen and 2,500 times as much Nitrogen in the atmosphere.

Here is some info from Wikipedia;

Carbon dioxide (chemical formula CO₂) is a naturally occurring chemical compound composed of two oxygen atoms covalently bonded to a single carbon atom. It is a gas at standard temperature and pressure and exists in Earth's atmosphere in this state, as a trace gas at a concentration of 0.039% by volume.

Notbornyesterday-838824 "Roy W . . . CO2 cannot possibly warm up the earth. CO2 makes up 36/thousandths of the atmosphere ."

While I too like to poke fun of the 'global warming' alarmists, I do have to partially disagree with you because CO2 has a proven 'greenhouse' effect. But I agree that the current 'global warming' hysteria is misplaced. Some people seem to have the silly belief that today's climate is 'ideal', and must be maintained at all cost - even if it bankrupts every nation on Earth.

The change in climate projected for the next 90 years is not much different from the actual change over the last 150 years, and we seem to have survived just fine by merely ADAPTING. In fact, the human population has increased by about 6 billion people over the last 150 years, so it doesn't seem to be the 'catastrophe' that some would have us believe.

Now, if we had a significant 'cooling' trend, we would probably have a REAL disaster, with perhaps billions dying from starvation and disease.

In all these calcs about amount of CO2 in air, is that dry air? Dry as in no water vapor? Water vapor is the elephant in the room (atmosphere), not CO2, when it comes to greenhouse effect.

Many ignorant posts. Climate change is real no matter what fox "news" says.

Bill-857242 "Water vapor is the elephant in the room (atmosphere), not CO2, when it comes to greenhouse effect."

Very true. I've seen estimates that water vapor makes up to 95% of the 'greenhouse effect', which is far more significant than CO2, but the reason it's not typically listed as a 'greenhouse gas' is because it's not controllable, so the global warming 'alarmists' ignore this 'elephant in the room'.

The reality is that we could probably significantly reduce any 'global warming' far easier by fostering more cloud cover than by trying to control CO2.

In fact, I suspect that 'Mother Nature' has her own mechanism to control 'global warming' - As more heat hits the oceans, more water vapor forms, which creates more (white) cloud cover, which in turn reflects more sunlight back into space, which cools the planet.

Perhaps 'GOD' planned things pretty well after all.

lol

Its all nature its been going on for 11,500 years (since the last one) and the present trend is not done yet. next episode ICE AGE. its really simple it gets warm then it gets cold then it warms up again been going on that way sense before mankind. approximately36 ice ages, translate to 36 warming spells. where have you dummies been, this $#!+ happens. we are over due for a new ice age thank God, but that does not mean its not lurking around the corner. in fact it is so enjoy while you can. you can survive warming but when it comes to Ice don't bet on it. I suppose when the tide turns they will have you fighting the Global cooling nothing can stop rich mans welfare, thats something that will always be there. you Libs need a Mission take that one on. stop rich mans welfare, a worthy cause.

"The Kyoto Protocol does not cover the world's largest two emitters, United States and China, and therefore cannot work," Kent said.

Waddaya mean?? We're drivin our Obama Motors Chevy Volts...oh I forgot...sales are nonexistent. But we're powering our homes with Solyndra manufactured solar panels....oops, forgot....another obama cronyism failure. But our global warming god Al Gore, the consummate hypocrite, has given up his 20,000 sq. ft. home and private jet which leaves a bigger carbon footprint than the entire state of Delaware....damn, wrong again....he's still living high on the emissions hog. Never mind.

SPARTAN- I checked out the articles you posted. Not a single one of them claims "Global Warming" to be the cause. The planet goes through cycles, that's all. Eliminating "Greenhouse Gases" will not change that. If you are worried about CO2 increasing, start planting trees, they will convert CO2 into Oxygen, which honestly is all we really need to do, replenish the forests, especially since the planets population continues to grow, we need more oxygen produced.

Actually they are increasing production of the Chevy Volt because demand is greater than expected, but thanks for playing.

Both Bush and Obama would not let China and India off the hook. We would not sign because they were getting a free ride. We are not the problem, China is. We are trending down China is trending way up, as is India.

ALL INN or ALL OUT! The rising waters on the coast of Delaware are a good income producer for me. Out with the wallboard, and in with the pvc board and rock wool. It's too late to make a differance anyway!

For all of these people that keep talking about our oil listen up. The United States has no oil (other than what we buy for the petroleum reserve). It is all owned by the private sector. They will sell it wherever they get the best price. They will keep it off the market to insure that their isn't an oversupply and a reduction in the price. They are refining below capacity to insure the inventory levels remain tight and the price remains high. We can allow the oil companies to drill anywhere they want but don't think for a minute that prices will come down and our dependence on foreign oil will be reduced. If you want lower prices and you want to control the drilling the only way to do that is to nationalize (yes SOCIALISM, oh the humanity) the oil companies. So you idiots who are blaming Obama and Bill Ayers don't have a clue about what you are saying. BTW, active oil well drilling in the US is now at its highest level ever. The oil companies have hundreds (possibly thousands) of permits they aren't even exploiting even though they keep pushing for more. You want low gas prices move to a country with nationalized oil.

Don the liberal, you may want to do some research before making statements like this. The US. actually has the largest reserves of fossil fuels in the world. Larger then Russia, China, and the oil producing middle eastern countries combined. Look for yourself, the information is easily found.

New Fields May Propel Americas to Top of Oil ... - New York Times

Don, do even more research. By the laws of the State of Alaska, all oil in Alaska is owned by the state. Oil companies pay royalties to pump it out.

I'm afraid I wouildn't count that mhender. Common sense didn't make it past Minnesota, they elected Al Franken...

THANK YOU Minnesota!!

Hell..maybe I will be moving to Canada. lol..

Good riddance lol...

Franken is retiring though.

Hey Mountain Man, take a look around at some of the world's largest cities and the pollution and smog there is and tell me again that man has no impact on the climate. That is a really naive statement at best. Most people who don't believe in global climate change have that opinion because it would just inconvenience them too much to acknowledge the truth. They might have to change their ways just a little bit and that is just too much trouble, isn't it? Climate warming is not a liberal or conservative issue, it is a scientific one.

Global warming is about money. The environment is a excuse. The world should try to improve technology and energy production but not by cutting our own throat. And the climate change poster boy Al Gore is a bought and paid for prostitute.

Global warming is backed by scientific fact. Those who deny it and claim to have proof are cherry-picking. You see, if September 1989 had less polar ice than March 2007, it doesn't say anything about the trend. It's just two dates, plain and simple. Look at the bigger picture and you'll see that the average ice cover has been steadily decreasing this whole time.

The artic tundra is beginning to melt and when it does so, it will release vast amounts of methane in the atmosphere. Methane is 20 time the greenhouse gas vs. carbox dioxide.

That is when global warming will accelerate and become obvious even to the deniers. It will be the beginning of the deaths of millions or billions as our food supplies will be adversely affected. There will be global conflict over the dwindling resources of food and water.

If you have children or grandchildren, this will be your legacy to them.

It's fear mongering like yours that creates deniers. People can smell BS a mile away and when the do smell it, everything else you say is deemed the same.

The raw data simply does not support your wacko assertions.

Fear mongering does hurt our cause. The facts are scary enough by themselves, so any attempt to make them look scarier is unnecessary.

MMM, you're right the Earth's climate does go in cycles. But what you're not thinking about is that these cycles normally take thousands of years. Why has there been such a dramatic change in the last 100 years?

The only scary part of global warming is the blatant attempt of enviro-nazis and their liberal cohorts to try to control our economy, our assets and our very lives! Wake up and realize that a simple volcano puts out more CO2 during an eruption then during the entirety of mankinds' existence! We have very little control over CO2 levels but only a moron would allow absolutely no pollution controls. Luckily, we have dramatically reduced smog levels but we do not have to subsidize the rest of the world!

Climate change is a naturally occurring cycle . 30 thousand years ago we where in an ice age . And about 30 thousand before that . In the past 400,000 years there are 8 major counted heating than freezing cycles recorded in fossil records .

From 1985 - 1998 we studied a 250 foot strata representing 400 thousand years of sedimentary deposit and our team counted 8 ages or dramatic weather change . We where even able to measure co2 trapped in crystals proving co2 levels have been significantlyhigher many times in the past naturally . Our conclusion was that co2 was not the great contributory factor but rather the oscillatory effect of the earths formation in conjunction with the suns mega-storm cycles .

Man did not create them and carbon taxes wont change the inevitable ice age that will follow the next heating cycle . Science knows this and politicians exploitand reinvent the facts . Man is at the mercy of greater forces much older than ourselves . We are not entitled permanent fixtures here on earth .

Climate change is a naturally occurring cycle . 30 thousand years ago we where in an ice age . And about 30 thousand before that . In the past 400,000 years there are 8 major counted heating than freezing cycles recorded in fossil records .

From 1985 - 1998 we studied a 250 foot strata representing 400 thousand years of sedimentary deposit and our team counted 8 ages or dramatic weather change . We where even able to measure co2 trapped in crystals proving co2 levels have been significantlyhigher many times in the past naturally . Our conclusion was that co2 was not the great contributory factor but rather the oscillatory effect of the earths formation in conjunction with the suns mega-storm cycles .

Man did not create them and carbon taxes wont change the inevitable ice age that will follow the next heating cycle . Science knows this and politicians exploitand reinvent the facts . Man is at the mercy of greater forces much older than ourselves . We are not entitled permanent fixtures here on earth .

It's fear mongering like yours that creates deniers. People can smell BS a mile away and when the do smell it, everything else you say is deemed the same. - p111

Do you deny the artic tundra is melting?

Do you deny that methane is 20 times the greenhouse gas vs CO2?

It is not fear mongering. It is our future and you will share responsibility for it.

Artic tundra melting

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/14/arctic-permafrost-methane

Methane Burps: Ticking Time Bomb

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/3647

When 97-99% of climatologists agree with something based on years of research, and it's debated primarily by conservative blowhard talk show hosts and puppets of energy companies (primarily Republicans), I'll side with the science community.

Just a Normal . . . Weather Report from the Arctic TODAY . . . -40 degrees . . . the friggin ice is 3 to 5 meters thick . . . thats 10 to 18 feet . . . tell me again about the warming . . . LOL

Canada last few winters have seen record cold and record snowfall . . . kind of flies in the fact of Gorebull Warming, but the "Believers" say that CO2 causes cold . . . I can hardly type its just sooooo funnnnny . . .

Notbornyesterday

The scientific data is a more reliable source of information that your personal bigotry.

You choose to be ignorant about the subject. Stick your head in the sand and continue to deny. That does not make you less responsible on how it effects your children and grandchildren.

You can't reason with brainwashed fox followers.

Just a and takenaka . . . brainwashed = you!!!

Winter starts in the Arctic in about 10 days . . . its friggin cold. The Tundra is melting? Yea, last summer you dummy, how do you think the lichens and flowers bloody grow? The caribou eat this stuff. Do you clowns think ii is just a friggin frozen desert all summer? Talk about dopy. If you think CO2 is really warming up the planet . . . show me the Science the real science that proves AGW. You can't cause it doesn't exist . . . don't you think Fat Al would have trotted it out by now?

In Europe, yes. In North America, no.

That's a lie. The US continues to improve with more and more installations of wind, solar, and efficiency gains. Meanwhile, much of Europe has been backing off.

The Kyoto Protocol is nonsense. How can it be expected to be successful when the 2 biggest world polluters don't support it?

Canada didn't say anything. the oil companies did. Just because the oil was going to Texas didn't mean it would stay in the US. Funny thing is that many of those red states the pipeline will go through don't want it. They'd like to be able to drink their water in their aquifiers.

The correct spelling is "morons", but yeah. Global warming is real. If you happen to die before it hits you, count yourself lucky because it's the rest of us that will have to clean up your mess--which may well be impossible to clean up.

Nonsense, there is no proof of it, it is a HOAX!

"Climate warming is not a liberal or conservative issue, it is a scientific one."

Except there is no real science involved, just propaganda

That's the most ignorant bull@!$%# I've heard in a while. It really pisses me off because it's about science, not personal beliefs.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Articgate-perpetuating-myth-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.html

Read that and tell me it's not a problem.

TL;DR it's BS

Destroyed really?! Let's say manmade global warming is real. Let's say it will change temperatures by a significant degree. Canada would welcome longer growing seasons, as would Russia.

At what cost? Assuming you don't care about biodiversity, there are people around the world who will be affected. That includes Americans.

Mr. Master, If we are indeed in a"warming trend" please show me the data, where, when, and how it was collected, as I have the last ten years worth of receipts for my winter heat here in upstate NY that will refute those sub saharan findings.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2011/100411.html

Check this out ! 18000 BC half of the NA continent was covered with ice that melted by 15000 BC ! Called glaciation !

You must live in constant panic that "the sky is falling !"

All the data gathered by people with a vested interest in showing global warming.

18000 BC to 15000 BC was 3000 @!$%#ing years. How long has this taken? 100? 200? And how long will it take for all of it to melt? 400? 500?

Then why has it be getting colder for the last decade?

Says who? You?

It's only "getting colder" if you cherry pick April 1989 and compare it with April 2009. Go look at the overall trend and tell me it's getting colder.

Yeah, and the East Anglia emails were just a "conservative" dirty trick! These scientists and politicians are trying to control our lives through scientific deception! Hockey stick graphs and false claims about ice melting and rising sea levels are just some of the wonderful "truths" spouted by these losers! I do not hear about New Yorkers moving to higher ground, but, I did hear that Al Gore's house in Tennessee had frozen pipes! I guess now the "Inconvenient Truth" is that global warming is, and has always been, a big lie!

Demlefty,

We also know where liberals stand on the future of moronic, spread the wealth, entitlement, self-righteous, illogical phony crap!

Move along, people. Nothing to see here! Global warming is just a pinko commie liberal hoax, and all the data found throughout the world by unrelated scientific groups is completely fabricated.

The overwhelming consensus of the world's brightest scientific minds is a lie because scientists hate freedom. Real patriotic Americans know that pollution standards and environmental protection leads to the DEATH CAMPS.

This message brought to you by Koch Industries, one of the nation's leading polluters, and the financial backer of the Tea Party group Freedomworks.

......................................................................................

We know how you lefties live for do overs. Smarten up and win one for a change by leaving wishful thinking land and work to improve things instead of using someone Else's money and effort. As for Al Franken, whatever, he's goofier than than most politicians.

Since when are liberals worried about human survival? lol...they care more about a animal's life than an unborn baby. HA...I won't get into that topic. But I wonder how Al Gore is doing? Is he still flying his greenhouse gas spewing jets around the world? lol..

The NDP should have won. The Liberals are more of the same. But it's truly appalling that the Conservatives got re-elected since they just got KICKED OUT for contempt of parliament.

You will probably see the same here in America, oblowhole re-elected for his incompetence!!!!!!!

If you don't want to see Obama re-elected, vote for Ron Paul and get him nominated.

Spartan . . . you are a friggin Socialist LOON . . . how are your "Occupy" friends these days . . . the 9% that don't want to work and are hopin someone will just give them stuff . . .

And Spartan . . . post the "Science" that proves Gorebull Warming . . . bet you can't . . . cause it don't friggin exist . . . its a "Religion" and the Preacher is Fat Al . . . LOL

None of my friends are still doing the Occupy bull@!$%#. The movement had a clear goal in the beginning, but they strayed and now they're just a bunch of anarchists.

And here's the science:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Articgate-perpetuating-myth-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered.html

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2011/100411.html

Arctic Ice TODAY . . . 3 to 5 meters thick . . . that's 10 to 18 FEET.

Only YOU and David Suzuki . . . who is trying to fleece kids by telling them that Santa is sinking in the water in the Arctic Now, send money . . . that is a blatent lie . . . its -40 today and frozen solid . . . you are a very "Religious" person . . . following the Church of Al Bore . . . LOL

Where did you get that information? How does it compare to last year? And the year before? And every year before that for the last 100 years?

3-5 m thick sounds okay, but if it was 8-10 m thick in 1950 and it's been steadily decreasing since then, I'd be worried.

Really ? A 16 % across the board corporate income tax with no EXCEPTIONS ( no crony capitalism ) was instigated last year and this year personal income tax was LOWERED by 9 % ! Many new jobs created !

Yeah , I bet the Canadians are very unhappy with prosperity !

Spart . . . you are sooooo dumb . . . Winter doesn't even start for 10 days yet . . . by March the ice could be 30 meters thick . . .

Some scientists for you . . . more none believers . . .

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming.” - Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.

“Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.” - Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo. Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar interaction with the Earth.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.

“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round…A large number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.

“I am convinced that the current alarm over carbon dioxide is mistaken...Fears about man-made global warming are unwarranted and are not based on good science.” - Award Winning Physicist Dr. Will Happer, Professor at the Department of Physics at Princeton University and Former Director of Energy Research at the Department of Energy, who has published over 200 scientific papers, and is a fellow of the American Physical Society, The American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the National Academy of Sciences.

“Nature's regulatory instrument is water vapor: more carbon dioxide leads to less moisture in the air, keeping the overall GHG content in accord with the necessary balance conditions.” – Prominent Hungarian Physicist and environmental researcher Dr. Miklós Zágoni reversed his view of man-made warming and is now a skeptic. Zágoni was once Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol.

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

“Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.

“The quantity of CO2 we produce is insignificant in terms of the natural circulation between air, water and soil... I am doing a detailed assessment of the UN IPCC reports and the Summaries for Policy Makers, identifying the way in which the Summaries have distorted the science.” - South Afican Nuclear Physicist and Chemical Engineer Dr. Philip Lloyd, a UN IPCC co-coordinating lead author who has authored over 150 refereed publications.

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

“All those urging action to curb global warming need to take off the blinkers and give some thought to what we should do if we are facing global cooling instead.” - Geophysicist Dr. Phil Chapman, an astronautical engineer and former NASA astronaut, served as staff physicist at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology)

“Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.

It's been pretty damned effective in Europe. Greed is the only reason it hasn't worked in North America--because it was never implemented.

How can GLOBAL Climate Change be effective in Europe but not the rest of the world (Globe)

I'll give you an analogy.

Let's say you take a crap in the middle of a room filled with blind people. It smells absolutely noxious where you are, but it'll take a while to reach any of the corners. One corner has a fan, so people there won't smell anything until they're completely surrounded by the smell. Then the fan will start drawing air from where the smell is, and they'll smell it too.

Spartan . . . just so much you don't know. Europe has spent Billions on Carbon Credits . . . the Bankers have made out like Bandits . . . they don't even know where the money went. And CO2 levels HAVE INCREASED OVER THE LAST DECADE.

CO2 is an odorless, colorless, benign and rare gas that enables plants to grow . . . it cannot possibly cause the earth to warm . . . it is only 36/thousandths of the atmosphere and 96% of that is created by nature.

Abso-@!$%#ing-lutely bull@!$%#. CO2 is THE biggest greenhouse gas. Other gases also contribute to global warming, but they're either easily removed through natural means (e.g. H2O) or not very concentrated. CO2 reflects a very large range of wavelengths back at the Earth, unlike most other gases.

Besides, if CO2 is removed by plants, then why don't you plant more trees to prevent it from harming the rest of us?

Clearly you are no scientist. And it's extremely obvious that people like you shouldn't be running the country, at least not when it comes to climate policy.

Where you been Spart . . . in North America we have been planting MILLIONS OF TREES for decades now . . . in fact Canada with its huge land mass and vegetation is a NET CARBON SINK . . . but Enviro-whacks won't tell you that because they want you to pull out your wallet . . . its all about the MONEY Spart!!!

The predominant GH Gas is Watervapor . . . it is 96% of all GH gasses . . . on a cold day . . . what happens when the clouds move in? Why it warms up. Why don't they try to restrict Watervapor ? Because there is NO MONEY IN IT!!!

A LITTLE SCIENCE TO GO WITH YOUR GOREBULL WARMING . . .

“Renewable energy” of any kind costs ten to 40 times as much as petroleum and the imperative is based on the demonization of carbon and CO2.

CO2 is a “trace gas” in air, insignificant by definition, 1/7th the absorber of IR, heat energy, from sunlight as water vapor which has 80 times as many molecules captures 560 times as much heat making 99.8% of all “global warming.” CO2 does only 0.2% of it.

Carbon combustion generates 80% of our energy. Control and taxing of carbon would give the elected ruling class more power and money than anything since the Magna Carta of 1215 AD.

Where the @!$%# did you get 99.8%? H2O is a major greenhouse gas, but not as much as CO2 and it's removed naturally whenever it rains. CO2 has no such mechanism and is usually removed by plants.

So I just went in my room and closed the door and put a fan in one corner and took a nice big s@!t in the middle of the room. I stood in the furthest corner and could still smell the s@!t (yes I did wipe really good). Then I turned the fan on and could still smell the s@!t. So I think your analogy is full of s@!t just like the stuff that come out of your mouth!

Try again this time, with your mom in the corner with the fan facing away from the wall, and your dad in a different corner. Give them each a stopwatch and start timing when you start.

Go back to high school--this is simple physics. I don't need climate science to explain something so basic.

Oh I love you Spartan 501 like you love proving Global Climate Change Exists! ;)

Nobody can come up with any data that is unbiased in my opinion on either side. All I hear is emotional out cries. But when the last two places I worked shut down because of "new" environmental requirements which are totally absurd and cost more to operate than the profit the plant made, then I don't want to hear anymore Al Gore stupidity.

Hey tree hugger's, if you are so serious about the environment then put environmental tariffs on stuff from China where all our coal is going to get burnt (without any environmental controls). Because you all are the first to buy the cheaper foreign made stuff that has no environmental costs built into the sales price. What a bunch of hypocrite's. I can hear it now: You are poisoning the air, you are poisoning the air, oh that china made coffee maker sure is nice, and what a good price, I'll take it! More environmental controls on American manufactures!!! I can't breath. My kid has asthma, my wife is turning purple. BS

Spart . . . Water vapor is 95% of ALL GH Gasses . . . CO2 is about 3%, Methane and other gasses make up the 2% . . . HOW DOES CO2 outperform water vapor?

CO2 can be tied to human activity, a tiny fraction of it, Humans HAVE CASH . . . therefore CO2 is the cause.

If the atmosphere was a Football field . . . the amount of CO2 contributed by MAN would be equal to a DIME standing on edge . . .

I'm talking about effects, not volume. Water vapor is removed whenever it rains, CO2 stays. And CO2 is very effective at reflecting radiation back at the Earth, due mostly to the large quantity of CO2 available.

You can't deny that water vapor plays a large role, but it's been around for billions of years. Anthropogenic CO2 has been around for no more than 200 years and it's already had a huge effect.

Spartan-501

You are trying to convince Fox watching, Rush listening, scientific averse Neandrathals. Stating facts to these people is a waste of time. Remember, these are the idiots who stand in front of the snowbank and say "tell Al Gore this is global warming". They don't get it and never will.

Wow, notbornyesterday said that CO2 is a rare gas. Hmm, too bad it's coming out of his mouth right now. Wow, again.

Robert . . . . 36/thousandths of the atmosphere . . . that is a FRACTION OF 1% . . . even you should be able to understand that. Check it out, go to a Science site if you can find one.

The Proud Lieberal . . . liberalism is a "Mental Disorder" . . . I have been asking for the real, provable, observable, science that takes AGW from Hypthesis to Fact for 15 years . . . if you have it, turn if over . . . but I understand it does not exist.

Prof. Richard Litzen at MIT debated a couple of Hansen's assistants a couple of years back . . . Litzen, head of Earth Sciences at MIT, shredded the Hansen people . . . they polled the folks at the beginning and the end of the debate. The "Believers" went from 45% to 20% in a couple of hours, the "Deniers" went from 40% to 65%.

This is why there are so few debates . . . when you have no substance, its hard to convince even those with low IQ's . . . like lieberals!!

Move to Europe or I doubt you will ever see any change. Count yourself lucky if you don't see the end, because that's when it all falls to pieces.

So Tim, you don't like America or China, well that gives you a hell of a lot of OTHER PLACES TO LIVE!!! Get the F..K out of America!!!!!!!!

Robert, it's people like you who need to GTFO. You're screwing things up. Go start up a new country called Jackassland where you can pollute all you want.

Spartan . . . stuckonstupid!!!

Europe is Broke, because the have embraced NDP style Socialism for decades . . . they have run out of "Other People's Money" . . . Gorebull Warming is a "Myth" . . . promoted by Fat Al and his dumb movie . . . did you know Al bough a mansion on the Calif. Coast . . . he's keeping an EYE on the Ocean . . . he will let you know if it rises . . . LOL

And you're saying he'll immediately notice if the ocean level rises? It doesn't happen overnight (well it could, but you'd have to melt vast quantities of arctic ice overnight).

Europe may not have lots of money, but is America any better? Let's not forget that America is running on the biggest deficit in recorded history.

So Spartan, how many KW of solar modules do you have? Do you have a leaf in your garage? 40% of CO2 is generated by households and another 40% is generated by transportation. That means individuals are responsible for 80% of man made CO2 production.

With the 30% energy tax credit and $7500 electric care credit, government HAS done it's part. It's liberals who only spend other peoples money that won't get off their behinds and do what they want everyone else to do.

You don't need government to put a gun to your head to buy solar, it's readily available on the Internet. If you think there's a problem put your money where your mouth is.

Spart . . . Back in 98 Gore and Hansen told us the ocean would rise by 25 or 30 FEET . . . . by TODAY!!!! Of course Al made 100 million from his movie . . . that was banned in schools in Britain by a Judge cause it contained NO SCIENCE!!!

But just keep on Beleving . . . .

The USA, China, India and Russia contribute more than 2/3's of the global emissions . . . Canada is at 2% - INSIGNIFICANT!!!

Every 6 months China's emissions increase more than Canada's annual output. Name one country cleaner than Canada . . . bet you can't.

@p111: Transportation is a problem, but factories release vast quantities of CO2 every single day.

@bornyesterday: On a national level, "insignificant" could still mean "lots and lots". There's no need to break something that works. While I agree that Al Gore sometimes goes beyond what's reasonable, how was the judge qualified to decide whether something's scientific or not? Realize it's not Al Gore that I support, but actual scientists.

And I'll ask you, how many KW of solar modules do you have? Do you drive a Leaf?

Do you walk the walk or just talk the talk?

takeout . . . you a fried chicken outlet?

Did you read the story? It says that the global temp will rise 2 degrees in the next 90 years. Wow!! Are you afraid yet? In the last 100 years . . . guess what, the temp rose 2 degrees, mostly before 1940. This looks pretty consistant to me, in other words . . . nothing appears to have changed. So why pull out your hair?

I am much more concerned at what is coming in the USA for the next 4 years . . . if O'bumbler keeps spending money we don't have . . . are we becoming Greece?

How much are you willing to give up, to protect the environment? Your job? Every job on this planet contributes to pollution.

Tellyou what.....when all of you global warming believers start walking everywhere you go then I might take you seriously. Or you could ride a bike. But as long as you are putting gas in your car, heating your homes, and using electricity then no one will believe you.

Those of you that are young, which I imagine is most of you, the things they are tell ing you to do now is the same things they told us to do in the '70's and 80's to avoid the next ice age. Can't have it both ways.

There are NO FINANCIAL BACKERS of the tea party you flaming as..ole. The tea party is made up of fed up Patriotic American who actually love this country whjich is a foriegn concept to you. It is the ows that is financilly backed by soro's, unions, an d the dem party just because they agreed with it's idiocy!!!!!!!!!!!!

The tea party is made up of fed up Patriotic American

With "FreedomWorks" stickers on everything they use.

See that's what we call "astroturfing".

Its what Jesus wants!

Jesus. I know Jesus. He's incarcerated where I work (juvenile corrections).

I thought he was waiting to be deported back to Mexico.

I don't agree with your premise, I don't feel that the science is settled.

But thank you, you peaked my interest regarding the entropy in/of black holes More reading to do

Science here is settled through modelling. Even the simplest connect-the-dots model shows a general upward trend, ever since the industrial revolution.

So what exactly do you have to offer in some field of expertise????????????

Just asking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a @!$%#ing climate scientist, I should know better than you do.

99% of climate scientists agree that global warming is a problem. The 1% insist that since one particular month in 1989 was warmer than another month in 2007, the world must be cooling. What they refused to see is that the annual temperature has been increasing drastically since the industrial revolution.

You don't expect intelligence and science from the right (or left), do you? Just read the political discourse with on-line news stories. It's all about calling your opponent a "libertard" or a "repuke." Global warming doesn't exist. The earth was created in six days. No intelligence there.

. . . you are 10 years behind . . . there is no such thing as "Settled Science" . . . go talk to a real scientist . . . LOL

Its the friggin SUN . . . Prof Willie Soon told us 10 years ago that solar activity was in decline . . . hence some of the coldest winters in both hemispheres in a hundred years . . . the Thames River in London has frozen several times in recent years . . . that hasn't happened for 75 years . . . another frigid winter grips Canada . . . where are you Gorebull Warming???

Did you notice you are now in the "Minority" . . . The "Believers" have fallen on hard times . . . and no Spart . . . most scientists do not "Believe" . . .

Science is never truly settled, but an educated guess is better that whatever bull@!$%# you can come up with.

Blame the sun, eh? Well guess what, average global temperatures are still rising. It doesn't matter if a certain winter is particularly frigid, it's AVERAGE temperature that we're worried about. How many times do I have to tell you to @!$%#ing STOP CHERRY PICKING?!

99% of scientists believe in fact. 1% believe in nonsense. Clearly, far more than 1% of the public believe in nonsense and an alarming number of politicians are willfully blind.

Spart . . . you are living proof . . . you can't fix stoopid . . .

Anyone who would vote NDP is not playing with a full deck . . . back in the 90's . . . as the world was booming they ran BC into the Ground . . . look at the gaggle of LOONS sitting in the parliament in Ottawa . . . the NDP folks are mostly clueless.

My advice to you Spart . . . save your money . . . go buy a CLUE!!!

The reality is Spart . . . they "Rigged" the data . . . Jones and the CRU controlled the input, the released E-mails confirm this. Mann made up the Hockey Stick graph . . . The Warmest Decade is still the 30's . . .

Hey takeoutdaCONS

Every time you continue to cut and paste, your "message" gets diluted even further.

And Spartan...if you truly are a scientist, why do you post profanity so much. It weakens whatever point you are tryint to make.

There's no rule saying scientists can't cuss. Besides, I'm not that old anyways.

Unless you can prove that 99% of scientists rigged their data and the 1% didn't, you don't have much of a case here.

I'm convinced that Rush Limbaugh has become so ensconced in his support of the Rep party that if they became the party of baby killers and bus bombers that he would still support them. So, he's not really a credible source of info.

@Spartan

I'm a @!$%#ing climate scientist

I don't usually post to people like you because you are worse than religious zealots, but i have to call BS on the climate scientist. No real scientist would ever use Wikipedia as a reliable source for any reason. That alone @!$%#s on any credibility you might have had.

@Spartan - I'm a @!$%#ing climate scientist, I should know better than you do.

I looked at the websites you provided as your evidence. They are simply stories that have reprinted out-of-context data borrowed from someone else, who borrowed from someone else. You say you are a climate scientist. Provide your own data. Show me a study you completed yourself. Don't borrow data from someone else who in turn borrowed theirs (etc.) and then used it in a way that was just as "cherry-picked" as you claim others have been. The Arctic Sea Ice News got their data from the National Snow and Ice Data Center, who plainly state their data is derived from the Defense Meteorological Satellite Program, which could not possibly have charted their data for more than a few decades at best(and that is being generous), which cannot show a long-term trend in the best of circumstances. Show me a scatter-plot of numbers you recorded yourself, or at least where you obtained the numbers you used (e.g. not from some convenient website provided by a search engine). Otherwise, your claim that you are a climatologist yourself falls a little flat, does it not?

"Science here is settled through modelling. Even the simplest connect-the-dots model shows a general upward trend, ever since the industrial revolution."

Spart . . . I worked with computers for 30 years . . . never had a computer tell me anything I didn't know . . . the "Computer Models" are JUNK!!!! All the Data came from one source, Jones at CRU at East Anglia U in Britain. They didn't even include Solar effects on their models . . . defies logic I know!!

99% - they are in the Park in NY Spart . . . 99% of scientists do not agree, that is patent nonsense. There were only a handful of real scientists involved with the IPCC, the rest were grad students and politicians. AGW is not proven science . . . its lieberal mythology!!!

notborn...if spart is a climate scientist, then I'm Elvis. Meteorologists are lucky if they guess the weather 3 days in advance (accurately), and yet the deluded devotees of GW think that they can predict long term climate change. And none of Gore's predictions have come to pass....

None of this @!$%# would have happened with the NDP running things. This is why you don't elect someone who just got kicked out for contempt of parliament.

Spart is the NDP . . . socialists/progressives/communists were running things . . . WE WOULD BE JUST LIKE EUROPE - BANKRUPT . . . all the Euro countries now Collapsing had Socialist Govt's . . . the NDP are whacky.

Spart . . . When did the Climate not Change? What do you suppose the best Temperature or Climate would be . . . do we get to Vote? I would prefer 74 degress F all the time, can we arrange that?

Why don't we start by say Controlling Volcanoes, Earthquakes or maybe even Thunderstorms . . . when we prove to all that we can control these little things . . . then we can tackle bigger stuff like Klimate.

Again, that's ignorant bull@!$%#.

The climate change I'm talking about is the overall trend over the past few hundred years, with reference to what happened thousands and even millions of years ago. We have a very serious anomaly right now. It's got nothing to do with seasonal change.

America is bankrupt already--or didn't you get the memo?

We have a very serious anomaly right now" . . . that's for sure Spart . . . way too many folks Stuckonstupid . . .

Past few hundred years? Back when Geo Washington was crossing the Delaware it was somewhat colder than today. But a couple of hundred years before that, they were growing Grapes in Britain (medieaval warm period that Mann left off the hockey stick graph). They don't grow grapes today there, its too cold!!

Climate has Always Changed . . . in the distant past during Ice Ages . . . CO2 levels were many times higher than today . . . but there was a mile of ice on Minneapolis. Possibly if all lefties held their breth, the CO2 levels would drop, if they held them long enough the lefties would also drop. this may be enough to save the planet . . . lol

Hmm maybe they never wanted to be part of that "pact" because they knew it was fruitless...... And they never said they would play fair so GAME ON!

The Senate back then voted against it by 95-0 or something like that.

takeout
You forgot the ex-vice president who sold you this crock of sh!t. Big Al! Remember him? One of the founders of the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX). Old Al Gore and Barry H STAND TO MAKE BILLIONS IF THEY CAN SELL THEIR USELESS CARBON CREDITS.

Good thing you are all knowing and seeing. You can sling insults but you have produced no answers or even any intelligent questions. What will you do when its time to do your homework? Future recipient of multiple government checks for the mentally stunted!! Get a life you pompous windbag!!

With the emphasis being on pompous windbag.

Ha ha! Keep believing that's what it's all about Johnny! It's about money and the hundreds of millions that Al Gore, Obama and their buddies stand to make selling useless carbon credits.

Spider...........I agree!!!!!! Your comment was collapsed, so needed to repost.

Canada is not falling for the deceitful scheme that was born from the Joyce Foundation with Obama and Ayers at the helm in the early nineties. They have decided not to contribute to Al Gore's trillion dollar retirement!!! Good job, Canada!!!!!!!

Yeah, he is trying to make gas prices go through the roof by delaying the pipeline, just to gain the environuts votes.

And maybe--just maybe--it's for the better.

so the problem isn't in that we are using fossil fuels...it's because we procreate way more than nature intended. If that's what you mean, then we can end global warming by ending welfare payments.

The carrying capacity for smart people is much higher than the carrying capacity for stupid people. Why? Because smart people are likely to find ways to mitigate global warming while dumb people not only deny its existence, but insist on exploiting the planet as much as possible.

you are so right. Smart people can carry a lot more than stupid people. Now I know the effect of greenhouse gases.

It leads some to think that smart people naturally carry more as opposed to caring more.

"Carrying capacity" refers to the planets ability to cope with us. If you go beyond carrying capacity, large numbers of people will start dying off due to lack of resources, despite all the technology available.

Kate . . . got sum bad news for you . . . Mother Earth is no longer with us . . . she was wandering on I90 to other day . . . got hit by a Kenworth.

You Gia believers need to get a life . . . the Earth is a spinning rock in space . . . it will be here long after we are all gone . . . and 7 Billion folks will fit comfortably in Texas . . . what's the problem???

And . . . without petrochemicals we would be living like the Engels in Little House in the Prairie . . . many Medicines, Clothes, Plastics and Industries would not exist without them. There is NOTHING to replace oil and gas TOMORROW . . . one day something will be invented or discovered . . . but it ain't windmills or solar panels.

Hey Kate, just want to tell you, I believe you have a clue. 25 yrs ago the PETA freaks went gonzo throwing blood on people for wearing fur etc. well as I told the local Madam of PETA that we as citizens here in upstate NY would go out and trap for the fur and meat and basically keep the population of that species in balance. We grew up knowing by sign that the area was "healthy" for if we over trapped we would have nothing. well the fur trade went down hill and 20 yrs ago we had a massive rabies outbreak and we had one hell of a laugh when she called the wildlife station to report a rabid raccoon in her back yard and wanted somebody to come to her house and shoot it. We told her it wasn't 'coon season yet but we would find her a hunter by fall. since then we have had a massive decline in trapping permits, the kids around here dont have a clue about anything in the woods, and all they want to do is play x-box and we have basically lost a generation of people to act as guardians of the great outdoors because of the wild rants of a bunch of left wing bunny huggers. The raccoon population and several other affected species are making a comeback in this area but the damage was done and now I am trying to convince several young men to go out into the swamps etc, and run trap lines and things but the market for the furs is almost non-existent. I try to tell them it isnt about money but they have no interest in eating healthy game. so, yes if we do not take the responsibility of being the guardians of our world I HAVE PROOF of mother nature doing the job.

We'll wait for that birth rate of drop because of Mother Nature.

Do those bad petrochemicals include canola oil?

I agree with your posts, Spartan. I've read them all to this point. Although some made me laugh, it really isn't funny. Best things people like you and I can do is avoid living near the shore, but stay away from the rivers and tundras--maybe get places near some mountain where there might be still be fresh water runoff, stock up on dehydrated foods, and lots of guns and ammo to protect all of the above, and maybe a couple of warehouses full of gas masks, if not for us, than our kids.

People are already dying off due to lack of resources--water in particular. Africa is a prime example--no rain for years, so drought and starvation are a fact of life. What was occasionally green and plantable no longer is. Not a part of global warming, however, is the fact that India's & China's water supplies are now so polluted, I don't believe they can ever clean up their rivers any time soon. No EPA in those countries. And of course, not many cars in India with pollution equipment on them. Just a lot of carbon monoxide floating upward. My brother was in China on business a while back and got a first-hand look--nothing but a river of reeking garbage, sludge and oil slick flowing downstream for miles on end--and, at the time, an inversion so putrid with chemicals he almost choked to death. Oh, and let's not forget fracking--rupturing the shale a few thousand feet down, pumping in steam & boiling water to liquify the oil & hoping nothing happens down there in the meantime!! And of course, that "dirty" hot water has to be ejected somewhere. And where would that be? Why, pumping it into a stream or letting it soak in somewhere, of course. Nothing like cooking the fish BEFORE you catch them. An ideal way to permanently contaminate ground water here in the U.S. (and Canada!) as well. And nothing like fracking and/or building a pipeline that people are screaming and raving at Obama for right over the top of the huge aquifer that provides water to, what? a million, two million people, in the midwest. Screwing up that water supply forever (not to mention farmland) because of fracking or a rupture in the pipeline that seeps into the ground cracks would mean that those folks will want water. Well, let's divert it from the Great Lakes, right?. Then we can get into a war with Canada over water rights because Canada "owns" half of the lake water. Cheez. We would have to shoot all the Canadians who are supplied with water from the Great Lakes. The water level in the Great Lakes is already three feet lower than normal. How much farther would the water level drop if we pump water to maybe 2 million people in the midwest? Any idea? Well, looking at it on the bright side, Western and upstate New York and Western Pennsylvania wouldn't have any more lake effect snowstorms. Of course, that means there would be no fresh water from those snows, so those people would then be in the same boat as the midwesterners. So, you mentioned "carrying capacity." Nothing will be sustainable, certainly, as long as there is such a collection of dimwits who can't, or won't, look down the road at the potential "big picture."

Chris, what you say makes a lot of sense. Our generation is incredibly self-centered. Hundreds of years from now, if anyone is still alive, our ancestors will curse our narcisism.

Chris your lost your mind, as the state of Green Energy today, it cost huge amount of energy and resources to produce, one example is the batteries from electric cars which are very toxic, I mean poison, not like oil which can harm you over time but a chemical that is un naturally deadly, you get billions of batteries from electric cars and you will have huge problems, You act like the use of Carbon base fuels is bad , its a natural occurring substance that nature can clean by bacteria breakdown , You also assume that folks that use oil our not environmentalist, these same folks will make the eventual green energy solutions that will be "clean" and affordable. People need to eat , get to work, in an affordable way. Green economy will get here but not by shoving it down folk-es throats, and using subsidized money Governments don't have. What is your beef with Christians , stereotyping I see out of ignorance.